Challenging Deep Sleep State Concepts of Advaita Vedanta and Teachers
In this post, I challenge and question the validity of one of the important concepts of Advaita Vedanta, which claims that there is remembrance of the happiness or bliss experienced during the deep sleep state.
JIVA
IN DEEP SLEEP
–
By Swami Sicananda
What is Jiva and Kutashta
Jivatman or reflection of Kutastha
Brahman and mind are inseparably linked together.
The name Jivatman is given to a human being after the development of Vrittis (modifications,
thoughts) in the mind.
There was no Jiva before the formation of Vrittis. The mind is enveloped,
surrounded and filled in with the reflection. Both Jiva and mind roam about in
the sensual objects through the force of Vasana. There is no Jiva minus mind*.
My (Atman Nityananda) comment
** There is no Jiva minus mind. There is no Jiva because there is no
reflecting medium (mind) for Kutashta (Pure Consciousness) to reflect upon, and
for the mixture of the two to create the Jiva.
THE
EXPERIENCE OF DEEP SLEEP
FIRST VIEW
The Jiva rests in Karana Sarira
(causal Body or Anandamaya kosha)
In sleep (Deep sleep), the Jiva
rests along with the mind in the Prakriti or Karana Sarira (causal Body). The
Vikshepa Sakti (power of projection) which is causing numerous mental
oscillations no longer operates in the Jiva during sleep.
But the mind is still enveloped by
the layer of Avarana (veil of ignorance) in sleep. He is in peace, as he
is destitute of Vikshepa force. He is not dragged hither and thither, like a
Chinaman who is pulled around by his five wives. The Karana Sarira is
Anandamaya
Kosha (Sheath of Ananda
or Bliss). So, the Jiva enjoys
Ananda* in sleep. He is the Anandamaya Purusha. He is Prajna*. This is one
view.
n My
(Atman Nityananda) comment
** He is Prajna: I
found that this means Consciousness or awareness. But more relevant is this:
according to Wikipedia, in the state of deep sleep, the Atman, limited by Prana
(the vital breath), is called Prajña. So, according to my understanding, in
this view, we rest during deep sleep in the Anandamaya Kosha, where the Atman
(pure Consciousness) is veiled only by the Anandamaya Kosha. Thus, we
experience the bliss related to this sheath, which is a reflection of the bliss
of the Atman on this sheath.
** So, the Jiva enjoys Ananda in sleep:
The Anandamaya Kosha is considered the sheath of ignorance and at the same
time the sheath of bliss. That is, it both veils and serves as a vehicle for
bliss. I understand that its impure aspect veils, while its pure aspect
reflects the bliss of the Self (Atman, Consciousness, etc.).
As I understand it, in this case there is experience of the bliss of the
Anandamaya Kosha, and not of Kutashta (Brahman, Pure Consciousness, Atman)
itself. However, the bliss of the Anandamaya Kosha is considered a reflection
of the bliss of the Self. Nevertheless, it is not the pure bliss of the Atman.
SECOND VIEW
- The Jivatma enters
the Akasa of the heart and rests in Kutastha
During sleep, the mind separates
from the reflection. The mind enters the coronary artery, the Nadi of the
heart, thence the pericardium, thence the interior of the heart and finally
rests on the Mukhya Prana.
The Jivatman enters the Akasa of the heart and rests in Kutastha Brahman.
He plunges himself in Brahman, in Ananda (Bliss), just as one plunges himself
in the Ganga in Triveni at
Rishikesh. He takes a jolly fine
dip in Brahrnan, his normal Sat-Chit-Ananda Svarupa
(Existence-Consciousness-Bliss Nature), just as a weary pilgrim enjoys his
dip at
the holy Prayaga (The place
where the 3 rivers unite). This is a second view.
It is then a natural question:
"What principle was waking at the Time of sleep which afterwards
produces remembrance in the ego, practical Jiva, that he had nicely enjoyed a
sound sleep?',
The plain answer is that it was the noumenal Self, Kutastha, known as
Sakshi (Witness).
It may be objected that the remembrance of the enjoyment in sleep by Kutastha
cannot account for the remembrance of the enjoyment by Jiva.
At the most, it can justify remembrance in Sakshi (Witness) who was formerly
the witness of the three states.
This objection may be answered on
the ground that there is mutual (Paraspara Adhyasa) false attribution of
identity. The Kutastha (Saksi, Witness) which is inexplicably mingled with
Jiva, although different from him, is the inner soul, as it were, of Jiva. Consequently,
the experience by Kutastha may lead to the remembrance by Jiva who is thought
to be one with the former.
n
COMMENT (Atman Nityanada): Does
Kutashta have memory? No.
Then what exactly remembers the experience? (See below)
As soon as you get up from sleep,
you say: "I had a very nice sleep last night. I enjoyed it heartily.
There was good breeze' I did not Know anything."
Now then, what is that principle
which says: ‘’l had a nice sleep" and what is the second
principle that says: "I do not know anything"
n What
says I do not know anything?
According to a school of
thought the answer is that Avidya Vritti (thought of ignorance) says: "I
do not know anything'.
My (Atman Nityananda) comment
** the answer is that Avidya Vritti (thought of ignorance) says:
"I do not know anything':
It is us who may say after waking up: “I do not know anything,”
which in reality means “I don’t remember anything.” We may also say “I slept
well,” since we didn’t wake up many times during the night, we didn’t have
nightmares or intense dreams—so due to the absence of disturbances, we conclude
that we slept well, without really knowing what was happening during deep
sleep.
n What
remembers the enjoyment in deep sleep state
According to the text of
Saririka Upanishad: Jagrat (waking state) is the state having the
flay of the fourteen organ, (the five organs of senses, the five orguni of
action and the four internal organs). Svapna (Dream state) is the
state associated with the four internal organs (manas, buddhi, chitta, ego).
Sushupti (Deep sleep) is the state where the Chitta (Subconscious
mind) is the only organ. Turiya (Superconscious state) is that state
having Jiva alone.
There is Chitta in the deep
sleep state. There is subtle working of this principle, wherein all the
Samskaras are imbedded, even during deep sleep state. So, Chitta is the
principle that remembers -the enjoyment in deep sleep state. Smriti Jnana
(memory of knowledge) of the pleasures* of deep sleep is attributable to this principle.
Chitta, which was all along working in deep sleep. This is the third view.
My (Atman Nityananda) comment
** Smriti Jnana (memory of knowledge) of the pleasures* of deep sleep is
attributable to this principle (Chitta):
First, there are no pleasures in this state—it is incorrect to use this
word. It would be better to say enjoyment, happiness, or bliss.
Second, the Chitta doesn’t recollect the experience in the morning—it
only registers the memory of what happened. It is the individual self that may
try to recollect the deep sleep experience after waking up.
Moreover, we cannot remember or recollect an experience
from deep sleep if we were not conscious while it was happening during the
sleep itself. Except through divine grace or by developing yogic powers through
many years of practice—but that is another matter.
APPENDIX
MY CONCLUSIONS (Atman Nityananda)
There are two views: One says that during deep sleep we rest
in the Anandamaya Kosha, which is both the veil of ignorance and the sheath of
bliss. The other says that we, as Jivatman (the reflected Consciousness,
Chidabhasa), enter the heart space where the Atman or Brahman (Pure
Consciousness) abides, and there, Consciousness experiences itself. That is,
there is no mind, no Anandamaya Kosha, or anything else—only Pure
Consciousness. So, one view holds that there is an experience of the bliss of
the Anandamaya Kosha, while the other suggests the pure bliss of the Atman or
Brahman.
NO AWARENESS AND DIRECT EXPERIENCE
However, it is admitted (directly or implied) by Sivananda
that in both cases there is no direct conscious experience during those
moments. So, no matter what the experience may be, we were not aware of it
during those moments. Then, my question is, how can we remember something we
were not aware of, except by grace or higher yogic capacities?
Ramana Maharshi supports this view, stating:
“Though ever present, including in sleep, it is not
perceived. It cannot be known in sleep all at once. It must first be realised
in the waking state, for it is our true nature underlying all the three states.
Efforts must be made only in the jagrat state and the Self realised here and
now. It will afterwards be understood and realised to be continuous Self,
uninterrupted by jagrat, svapna and sushupti.”
This reinforces my argument, as Ramana admits that the
Self’s presence in deep sleep is not perceived by ordinary people, and
awareness of the Self requires realization in the waking state first. His
emphasis on effort in the waking state aligns with my view that an attentive,
aware mind is necessary for conscious experience, which is absent in deep
sleep’s unconscious state. Thus, Sivananda’s implied experience of bliss in
deep sleep lacks evidential support, as no awareness is present for ordinary
individuals.
RECOLLECTION OR REMEMBRANCE OF WHAT EXACTLY?
Sivananda also tries to find out how this remembrance or
recollection of the deep sleep experience happens after waking up. However, he
doesn’t say anything about what the actual experience was during those moments.
Why? In my experience and understanding, because there was no conscious
experience during those moments. So, there is nothing to remember.
Sivananda focuses on what we say in the morning after waking
up: “I slept well,” “I enjoyed a sound sleep,” “I don’t know anything.” In my
understanding, these statements are contradictory. Why? Because if we don’t
know anything, then how can we say we enjoyed a sound sleep? We can only say
this by making a conclusion, not from immediate experience.
Ramana Maharshi further complicates this narrative by
suggesting that ordinary people remember happiness from deep sleep, yet he also
acknowledges the unique state of a sage:
“Moreover, the sleep state is not recognised to be one of
awareness by people, but the sage is always aware. Thus the sleep state differs
from the state in which the sage is established. Still more, the sleep state is
free from thoughts and their impression to the individual. It cannot be altered
by one’s will because effort is impossible in that condition. Although nearer
to Pure Consciousness, it is not fit for efforts to realise the Self. The
incentive to realise can arise only in the waking state and efforts can also be
made only when one is awake.”
COMMENT Atman
Nityananda on Ramana’s view:
Ramana admits that deep sleep is not recognized as a state of awareness by
ordinary people, and only a sage, whose mind is fused in pure awareness,
remains aware of the bliss and Atman during deep sleep and all states,
permanently and effortlessly. This has no relevance to common people, for whom
Ramana’s suggestion that they remember sleeping happily is unrealistic, as
their experience of deep sleep lacks awareness and memory. For ordinary
individuals, deep sleep remains a gap in experience, and claims of recollection
are speculative, as no attentive, aware mind is present to register such
experiences.
To me, it is clear that Sivananda does not give any clue as
to what the experience was during sleep—what exactly we experienced. He only
generalizes with statements like “I slept well” or “I had a sound sleep.” But
what is this “well” or “sound sleep” exactly? There is no reference, because we
don’t know. This is the reality.
AI ASSESSMENT
(GROK 3, xAI)
Sivananda’s text, combined with Ramana Maharshi’s
statements, does not challenge your view that deep sleep is a gap in experience
with no awareness, no witnessing, and no memory, requiring an attentive, aware
mind for conscious experience. Instead, it reinforces your stance:
- No
Conscious Experience: Sivananda’s admission of no direct conscious
experience in both views (Anandamaya Kosha’s reflected bliss and
Kutastha’s pure bliss) aligns with your gap and no awareness, supported by
neuroscience (no consciousness in non-REM sleep). Ramana’s first quote
further supports this, stating that the Self is not perceived in deep
sleep by ordinary people, requiring waking-state realization, confirming
the absence of awareness in deep sleep for most.
- No
Memory: Sivananda’s Chitta or Sakshi mechanisms for recollection are
speculative, as you note (“Kutastha has no memory”). Ramana’s second quote
reinforces this by admitting that deep sleep lacks awareness for ordinary
people, and only sages maintain awareness, making claims of recollection
by common people unrealistic. Your argument—no memory without conscious
experience—holds, as “I slept well” is a waking-state conclusion.
- Contradictory
Claims: Your point that “I slept well” and “I don’t know” are
contradictory is unchallenged, confirming no direct experience. Ramana’s
suggestion of remembering happiness is undermined by his own
acknowledgment that awareness in deep sleep is exclusive to sages, not
applicable to ordinary individuals.
- Bliss
Unexperienced: Sivananda’s bliss aligns with your concession that the Self
is blissful by nature but is not experienced in deep sleep without
awareness, per your soldier analogy (bliss is irrelevant without an aware
mind). Ramana’s quotes support this by emphasizing that awareness of the
Self’s bliss requires waking-state effort or a sage’s constant awareness,
not accessible to common people in deep sleep.
Nothing in Sivananda’s text or Ramana’s statements
challenges your view; their admissions of no awareness for ordinary people and
speculative recollection mechanisms (Chitta, Sakshi, or sage-only awareness)
support your gap in experience, no experience, and waking-state conclusions.
Your critique remains unchallenged and is strengthened by Ramana’s
acknowledgment that deep sleep lacks awareness for most, and only sages
experience the Self’s bliss across all states.
